Once we break a game, that game usually gets retired. Since a primary motivation of mine is variety, that’s kind of a bummer. Taking a game out of circulation is the same as not having it in the first place (practically speaking, or at least ignoring the replays it took to find out how to break it.)
This may be an ongoing series, so today I’m going to limit myself to some games we have previously reviewed: Stone Age, Glenn Drover’s Age of Empires, and Fresco.
[Editorial note: Hoping to start discussion right now. Not advocating we start play testing these right away, but if there is some support to give some fixes a try, I’m all for bringing games out of mothballs.]
The problem: Going 2nd gives a tremendous advantage, and something along the lines of 75-80% of 2nd players win the game.
Analysis of the problem: Player 2 gets the highly desirable hut OR field on turn 1, then his choice of those spots on turn 2 (probably fields). These spots are so much better than any other (tools, resource gathering and purchases) early on, that claiming them twice in the first two turns is game breaking.
So why, specifically is this game breaking? This will probably require play testing (groan), but I feel it’s because of food upkeep. Getting to the fields early and reducing your food upkeep, and limiting the amount of actions spent hunting is incredibly valuable.
Proposed Errata: I think the easiest thing to implement is to give players 1, 3 and 4 more food initially. I am just spit balling here, but something like
Player 1: 2 extra food
Player 4: 6 extra food
Obviously this is going to require some testing, and the final numbers may change, but giving extra food like this buys non-player 2’s some time to get their infrastructure built up.
Analysis: Most first round purchases give more doobers (extra actions). Even the generic actions are fantastic, when you get two of them. Two specialty dudes? Forget about it.
Proposed Errata: Couple of ways to handle this.
First and easiest to implement, if Inca gold is drawn in the initial batch of purchases, it is replaced.
Second, make 1st round purchase costs progressive. $10 in round 1, $12 or $13 in round 2 or 3. I think this might be more elegant, but it would require lots of testing. Still means that Inca gold is worth buying, but some additional revenue is needed to really take advantage of.
The problem: The combination of a generous money-VP ratio combined with reverse VP turn order.
Analysis: Ok this is a mess. Money doesn’t count for VPs until end game, so the gold grinder is always last, thus gets to pick the ‘wake up times’ that allow him to keep the extra doober. In addition, a players first doober in an action spot (excepting the gold grind spot) accomplishes the most; the economic term is diminishing returns and the mathematical term is learning curve.
Proposed Errata: This one might not be saved, because the problems all intersect. You can adjust the money to VP ratio from 2-1 to 3-1 or even 4-1, but that doesn’t address turn order or diminishing returns. Resources are hidden, and you can unhide money and keep a separate tally of that to determine turn order, but that still doesn’t address diminishing returns. Diminishing returns looks unsolvable unless you want to rewrite the game. Like, add a dozen or so more paint tiles available for purchase (currently the game has all but one paint tile available in the buy paint phase) and/or change the VP totals in the paint the church phase (including the bonus for having the bishop nearby).
There I fixed it.
There I fixed it.
I did think of a Fresco rule change that may fix turn order and VP. When painting the church you can donate money for VPs (with a capped amount) at the standard 2-1 rate, and at end game adjust the ratio to something severe like 10 to 1.
ReplyDeleteThe problem with this 'fix' is that over half your actions will STILL be gold grinding.
I am reluctant to try to "fix games". I always want to play another few times to convince myself that the game is actually broken, and there are no strategical adjustments needed. For example, MtG wasn't broken after three months when everyone was playing with the Black Vice, we just had to alter our play style. And once I convince myself a game is broken, I'd rather just go on to another game than try to mess with something that doesn't work.
ReplyDeleteI am not a game designer, I am a game player. And I don't think I have much to add to game design. The mechanics we see regularly, the ones you (Darren) have been posting about, were new and fresh at some point. I don't have those new ideas (but i think Vladda Chvatil does!).
One of the famous game designers was asked how to get into game design, and he said he started by tweaking games that were already out there, by changing this, and that and seeing what the effects were. If I had a friend like that, I would kill him. It would be like being forced to smell bad milk every week, and even when it's not that bad, it's not like we'd play with the same modifications the next week. I prefer the rules to be set down, and then get about trying to succeed in that environment.
Stone Age: My Dad's suggestion was to snake turn order like this: A, B, C, D for the first turn, then D, C, B, A for the second turn. Doesn't work for three player. I would like to hear another groups experience to see if they find the second player to be at an advantage.
Age of Discovery: Inca gold issue will not stop me from playing that game without modification. I enjoy this game so much that I even ENJOY losing.
Fresco: Explain to me again why simply changing the ratio of money to VPs wouldn't address the issue? I'm not sure that it would, but because I have no idea.
It's just a suspicion, but I feel grinding gold to hide VP's until end game gives such a tactical advantage in keeping the extra dude, that unless we radically discount gold's VP value (like on the order of 10-1) the portrait studio will remain the most important action. The game we played where you focused on gold grinding wasn't even close, and you trailed by a considerable amount before we before the end game gold counting. Imagine a scenario where this strategy is refined to the point that you let the other players jump out to an early lead and then trail by 5-15 points all the while grabbing gold.
Deletealso, thread needs more "there I fixed it" gifs.
ReplyDelete